The Breakfast Ball

according to Rick Reilly.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/ ... id=4347419

Too much swearing and club slamming. I think Reilly has a point. Unfortunately, the barb I give to my son when he gets that upset on the course doesn't apply to Tiger: "You're not good enough to get that angry."

i agree, he acts like he is above etiquette and that is only working while he is in a league of his own. if he plays badly for a year then there will be a public backlash.

he may be the best golfer ever but other apsects of his conduct really suck.

the thing i really hate that he has always done is spitting on the course. they don't show it as much lately but he still does it.

I see no problems with his conduct. The fact of the matter is that he IS the best player that ever lived. Perhaps part of holding that title for him is having the attitude he has.

Does it really bother you guys to see him get angry at himself over a bad shot? The only one it affects is him, why does it bother you?

manix wrote:I see no problems with his conduct. The fact of the matter is that he IS the best player that ever lived. Perhaps part of holding that title for him is having the attitude he has.

Does it really bother you guys to see him get angry at himself over a bad shot? The only one it affects is him, why does it bother you?

hate to agree with you, but I do, that is other than stuff that could damage course let him rant all he wants.

i get just as angry over my bad shots.
i'm willing to cut him some slack

I think it says something about his character. Like Reilly says you don't see Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby,.... the list is very long...throw tantrums.

I do want my kids to watch the best golfer ever. I'd rather them not see Tiger at all than to see him throw even one club slamming/F-bomb tantrum. If thats what it takes to be the best at whatever in the world then...? Grow up for crying out loud. The more I see Tiger spit, swear, and throw hissy fits the more I root for Phil.

Do you thing Tiger would like his own kids to be a witness to his antics when they get older?

When I play with somebody and they throw a tantrum I'm embarrassed for them.

I'd rather they saw a guy push to be the best and get mad at himself occasionally than for instance seeing a guy they admired smoking.

Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

manix wrote:I'd rather they saw a guy push to be the best and get mad at himself occasionally than for instance seeing a guy they admired smoking.

Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

If it was occasionally I might agree...with Tiger it is everytime he plays...thus the problem.

manix wrote:Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

First, Jones had retired by the time TV came around. As for the comment Tiger being on TV 5x more than the others, well, careful. Ever watch the old Classic Golf shows on Golf Channel? How about replays of Shell Wonderful World of Golf?

Arnold had at least two shows on at various points, where he WAS the show. One was him playing singles matches against other guys, the other was him and Player taking on other twosomes. Further, Arnie was THE poster-child for golf on television. He had at least as much camera exposure as Woods gets, if not more. And until Woods came along, NOBODY in sports got paid more as a product endorser than Arnold did.

So Arnie's mug has been in front of the camera a LOT, and you'd be very hard pressed to find any clips of him slamming clubs, swearing, spitting, or otherwise acting unlike the gentleman that he is.

All that said, I don't like it when Tiger does it, so I am not defending him. I think he needs to knock it off too.

Deep wrote:

manix wrote:Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

First, Jones had retired by the time TV came around. As for the comment Tiger being on TV 5x more than the others, well, careful. Ever watch the old Classic Golf shows on Golf Channel? How about replays of Shell Wonderful World of Golf?

Arnold had at least two shows on at various points, where he WAS the show. One was him playing singles matches against other guys, the other was him and Player taking on other twosomes. Further, Arnie was THE poster-child for golf on television. He had at least as much camera exposure as Woods gets, if not more. And until Woods came along, NOBODY in sports got paid more as a product endorser than Arnold did.

So Arnie's mug has been in front of the camera a LOT, and you'd be very hard pressed to find any clips of him slamming clubs, swearing, spitting, or otherwise acting unlike the gentleman that he is.

I think Arnie's Dad cured him of that after the first time it happened.

Deep wrote:

manix wrote:Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

First, Jones had retired by the time TV came around. As for the comment Tiger being on TV 5x more than the others, well, careful. Ever watch the old Classic Golf shows on Golf Channel? How about replays of Shell Wonderful World of Golf?

Arnold had at least two shows on at various points, where he WAS the show. One was him playing singles matches against other guys, the other was him and Player taking on other twosomes. Further, Arnie was THE poster-child for golf on television. He had at least as much camera exposure as Woods gets, if not more. And until Woods came along, NOBODY in sports got paid more as a product endorser than Arnold did.

So Arnie's mug has been in front of the camera a LOT, and you'd be very hard pressed to find any clips of him slamming clubs, swearing, spitting, or otherwise acting unlike the gentleman that he is.

I don't agree the Arnie made for TV stuff was staged so not in heat of real competition. TV coverage pre 90's was not anywhere close to today with number of hand held cameras or any where near the hours of coverage. Hell we did not even see the front 9 of Masters until a few years ago.

5x's might be even low when you consider how the networks focus on TW's every move if he is in it Saturday/Sunday

Tiger is regaled as someone who has immense powers of concentration and self control, yet throws tantrums when camera shutters click. It has been claimed that his dad would do things to interrupt Tiger during the swing, trying to get Tiger to ignore the disturbance. It doesn't excuse the snapshots, but he isn't what is claimed by many.

His temper tantrums and spitting are not of the class that many would place around this game. Certainly, he is not in the same "class" league as Arnie. That man epitomised class in how he carried himself over the years.

Is this right or wrong, hard to say. I don't like to see tantrums, but on occasion, when the frustration boils up after a few bad holes or shots in a row, it is let out. I have tried to subsitute words for the four letter ones over time, but it is a human failing. I am working on it.

Bjorn Borg is a great example of teaching a kid behaviour. He threw a tantrum as a teenager and his dad took away his tennis racquet for a year. He never did it again. He was the Ice Man of tennis. I don't see many dads these days teaching their kid that kind of lesson.

When he leaves cigar butts and sunflower seeds on greens, then I will have a problem with him. The cussing I can handle.

Well, all of that and Arnie wishes he could have been as good as Tiger.

Look. I'm not saying Arnie was as talented as Tiger, not even close. I'm simply saying that compare to the rest of the players of his day, Arnie WAS his era's Tiger Woods. And you NEVER saw the kinds of temper displays that you see with Tiger. Ever. Nor, would I submit, have you ever read about them. Tiger is a phenomenal talent. No doubt about it. But he HAS to knock off the BS behavior. Enough.

In your opinion. At the end of the day he doesn't HAVE to do jack shit except for what he wants to do.

Tiger should be permanently banned from golf.

NMHacker wrote:Tiger should be permanently banned from golf.

+1.. but wait until he is one short of Jacks major wins.

manix wrote:I see no problems with his conduct. The fact of the matter is that he IS the best player that ever lived. Perhaps part of holding that title for him is having the attitude he has.

Does it really bother you guys to see him get angry at himself over a bad shot? The only one it affects is him, why does it bother you?

It doesn't bother me one bit, but I do think it's a sh*tty example for the most recognizable sports figure on the planet to set for all the kids out there. And I'm typically about as far from an uptight, overprotective type as you can get.

It's also handy ammo to use against the Tiger-loving crew.

manix wrote:In your opinion. At the end of the day he doesn't HAVE to do jack shit except for what he wants to do.

+1 Until they mandate behavior, I am sure he is happy enough to pay the fines and continue to to play the tournaments that cntinue the opportunity to extend his leagay and allor him to pay his bills.

Tiger may actually play better if he learned to control his temper. I know I do.

what will tiger's exit strategy be?

if he wins his 20th (or whatever) major and announces he is never going to play pro golf again, then this stuff will not hurt him.

if he ends up declining from being the dominant player but still winning sometimes, then going on the senior tour etc etc then i believe he will have to moderate his attitude, otherwise he will lose fans.

its not a right or wrong thing really, it is just that he is now of an age where it will not be overlooked as youthful exuberance. nobody forgives a 40 year old for that chit, best golfer in the world or not.

I expect a certain decorum from everybody, regardless of talent or lack thereof, regardless of context, and regardless of who's watching. Needless to say, I am often disappointed.

What irks me most about Tiger is the sense of entitlement, as if his pain is somehow more insufferable than yours or mine. He hears left and right that he's destiny's child and it appears he's bought into it hook, line and sinker. I couldn't stand playing with him if he pulled the usual histrionics all the time.

Most of us, not all, acquire some graciousness with age. Maybe Tiger will and maybe he won't. You'd think having kids would make a difference, but so far it hasn't.

hawthornej wrote:

Deep wrote:

manix wrote:Jack, Arnie, Tom, Bobby - you didn't see them get mad as often for a simple reason - Tiger has already been televised probably about 5 times as much as all of those guys combined.

First, Jones had retired by the time TV came around. As for the comment Tiger being on TV 5x more than the others, well, careful. Ever watch the old Classic Golf shows on Golf Channel? How about replays of Shell Wonderful World of Golf?

Arnold had at least two shows on at various points, where he WAS the show. One was him playing singles matches against other guys, the other was him and Player taking on other twosomes. Further, Arnie was THE poster-child for golf on television. He had at least as much camera exposure as Woods gets, if not more. And until Woods came along, NOBODY in sports got paid more as a product endorser than Arnold did.

So Arnie's mug has been in front of the camera a LOT, and you'd be very hard pressed to find any clips of him slamming clubs, swearing, spitting, or otherwise acting unlike the gentleman that he is.

I think Arnie's Dad cured him of that after the first time it happened.

+1

When he was young, Arnie either cursed or broke a club.

His father then told him that he would never play golf again if he ever behaved that way again.

The problem was solved, and as everyone knows, Palmer has the reputation of being a wonderful gentleman, both on and off the course.

I've heard Arnie say "G*d dammit!" on a few occasions. Somehow it doesn't seem as bad from him. I suppose because he's an old codger. A young hothead is somehow more disturbing. I hate to see Tiger slamming clubs. A profanity here and there isn't too bad, as long as it's not after every bad shot.

BTW, it's pretty sad when it's such a BFD that Tiger entered the Buick Open. I suppose it's worth a mention, but some treated it as if it was a historical event.

The folks in Grand Blanc are grateful, I'm sure. They'll sell a BUNCH more tickets now that El Tigre is coming to town.

TremendousSlouch wrote:BTW, it's pretty sad when it's such a BFD that Tiger entered the Buick Open. I suppose it's worth a mention, but some treated it as if it was a historical event.

The community really needs to keep that tournament alive - and its in rough shape right now. With no tiger, they could lose it - so its a big deal locally.

Also, some of you namby-pamby types wouldn't want to play with me based on your weak stomachs and virgin ears. I'm not one to litter the course with f-bombs, but you'll probably hear a few a round. I think its nice to see that being a robot is not the key to being the best golfer. The same intensity that drives his personal disgust is what makes him the best.

Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world. He does need to lead by example, frustrations in a round of golf will occur, he needs to manage those much better, throwing clubs and swearing is way below my expectations for him but agian we all all human and it just shows that he is in fact in many ways no better than your regular amateurs at times dealing with frustrations.

I do believe however tha he has and will learn from this experience contrary to many amateurs who dont realise how poor their attitudes are playing golf and dont change.

I think it is weak. Lack of control has nothing to do with drive. Tiger's good so far outweighs this one bad that it is a non-factor but I'm pretty surprised a perfectionist like him finds it acceptable to lose control at any point. That's what it is, temporary loss of control. Slamming clubs and acting like a two year old with a tantrum is weak though. I've been to a lot of PGA Tour events, played with several people on tour and a few that were at some point and Tiger and Pat Perez are the only two golfers I've seen consistently lose control over their emotions. There's really no excuse for it. He could easily play with plenty of passion and display that while not looking like an ass several times a round. And, make no mistake, he looks like a whiny, spoiled brat when he does it. That's why it is so surprising because the rest of the time he seems like a perfect role model.

One other point here is that Perez was hammered and told to tone his act down. In my experience in following both Perez's behavior is at least as good as Tiger's. There's that one famous shot of Perez trying to break his FW at Pebble Beach and the time he was a prick on the 18th green at some tournament (memory is slipping on which one) but overall they behave about the same. I've heard people rail on Perez about how they wouldn't want their kids to act like him and I agree but really it is no different.

I personally lose a little bit of respect for Tiger every single time he acts like a petulant child.

stewabr wrote:I think it is weak. Lack of control has nothing to do with drive. Tiger's good so far outweighs this one bad that it is a non-factor but I'm pretty surprised a perfectionist like him finds it acceptable to lose control at any point. That's what it is, temporary loss of control. Slamming clubs and acting like a two year old with a tantrum is weak though. I've been to a lot of PGA Tour events, played with several people on tour and a few that were at some point and Tiger and Pat Perez are the only two golfers I've seen consistently lose control over their emotions. There's really no excuse for it. He could easily play with plenty of passion and display that while not looking like an ass several times a round. And, make no mistake, he looks like a whiny, spoiled brat when he does it. That's why it is so surprising because the rest of the time he seems like a perfect role model.

One other point here is that Perez was hammered and told to tone his act down. In my experience in following both Perez's behavior is at least as good as Tiger's. There's that one famous shot of Perez trying to break his FW at Pebble Beach and the time he was a prick on the 18th green at some tournament (memory is slipping on which one) but overall they behave about the same. I've heard people rail on Perez about how they wouldn't want their kids to act like him and I agree but really it is no different.

I personally lose a little bit of respect for Tiger every single time he acts like a petulant child.

I personally put it under the category of 'it takes all kinds'.

He's human and not perfect so if that's the one thing he does to blow off some steam, then its fine by me. I'm probably more annoyed by Phil's forced smiles 30 seconds after hitting a crappy shot - and that's not because I don't like Phil. I just think Tiger is being genuine.

quadzilla wrote:Also, some of you namby-pamby types wouldn't want to play with me based on your weak stomachs and virgin ears. I'm not one to litter the course with f-bombs, but you'll probably hear a few a round. I think its nice to see that being a robot is not the key to being the best golfer. The same intensity that drives his personal disgust is what makes him the best.

You're not on TV.

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

and smoking cigarettes like the old guys did while playing tournament golf.

NMHacker wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

and smoking cigarettes like the old guys did while playing tournament golf.

That's a little different. Smoking was socially acceptable at that time.

TremendousSlouch wrote:

NMHacker wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

and smoking cigarettes like the old guys did while playing tournament golf.

That's a little different. Smoking was socially acceptable at that time.

Yep and I've heard both Arnold and Jack say that they quit when they saw themselves on TV looking that way. In fact Nicklaus supposedly didn't actually quit smoking for several years after he quit on course but didn't want to be viewed that way on the course/as a role model.

TremendousSlouch wrote:

NMHacker wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

and smoking cigarettes like the old guys did while playing tournament golf.

That's a little different. Smoking was socially acceptable at that time.

Doing a fist pump is not socially acceptable? Well, maybe not in the old guy country club society.

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

There's nothing wrong with that. I've made those swings. Letting go is a compensation for something terribly wrong.

NMHacker wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

NMHacker wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

and smoking cigarettes like the old guys did while playing tournament golf.

That's a little different. Smoking was socially acceptable at that time.

Doing a fist pump is not socially acceptable? Well, maybe not in the old guy country club society.

Didn't say that, now did I? It just makes one look like an a**hole to overdo it. I'm not the one who put them in the same category.

Thing is, I don't think Tiger would do any of this crap if people weren't watching. You think he does it when it's just him and Steve?

PMantle wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

There's nothing wrong with that. I've made those swings. Letting go is a compensation for something terribly wrong.

you are supporting my case by admitting you do it

magwai wrote:

PMantle wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

There's nothing wrong with that. I've made those swings. Letting go is a compensation for something terribly wrong.

you are supporting my case by admitting you do it

Amazing you end up back home on a daily basis.

PMantle wrote:

magwai wrote:

PMantle wrote:

magwai wrote:

TremendousSlouch wrote:

PMantle wrote:

Zdan wrote:Tiger is a role model to kids with programs all over the world.

This is the only reason I care and the only reason it really matters. He has the power to change or mold how millions act on the golf course.

We've already seen little creeps doing those exaggerated fist pumps.

and letting go of the club at the end of a swing if it felt bad

There's nothing wrong with that. I've made those swings. Letting go is a compensation for something terribly wrong.

you are supporting my case by admitting you do it

Amazing you end up back home on a daily basis.

that's true.

you know if you can't help letting go of the club, your grip might need to be completely reworked

magwai wrote:you know if you can't help letting go of the club, your grip might need to be completely reworked

It's a bird, remember?

landlord wrote:Thing is, I don't think Tiger wouldn't do any of this crap if people weren't watching. You think he does it when it's just him and Steve?

I don't either. Tiger is quite a drama queen. Not that it makes him a bad guy or anything, but the caddies don't call him 'Oscar' for nothing.

landlord wrote:Thing is, I don't think Tiger would do any of this crap if people weren't watching. You think he does it when it's just him and Steve?

Why would he? A bad swing with a tournament on the line means a helluva lot more than a practice round with a caddie.